You can compress a gas without adding heat, but you will be raising its temperature by bottling up its molecules in a smaller space. The differences between a solid, liquid and gas are simple! Hydrogen must be liquefied at temperature of 20.28 K (−423.17 °F/−252.87°C) and maintained at this temperature so it does not turn into gas form by means of nitrogen.3. The exaggerated fear of hydrogen gas storage and "embrittlement" is epidemically rampant! Biomethane — refined biogas from anaerobic digestion or landfills — can be used. I just made a cold fusion heater using 55 watts for the fan and hho gas and a car caty. You can check out my videos and everthing I am going at my facebook. Hydrogen partially makes up for that fact by being more energy dense per unit mass — about 3 times as much as natural gas. Gases can be compressed because each gas particle has relatively vast amounts of room between it and all other gas particles the majority of the time. Yes hydrogen is both explosive if handled wrong and hence dangerous but by going through a risk mitigation process you can reduce this risk pretty much to zero (aka SAFE). Keep me posted if you do that ! By doing so, you decrease its volume because now the same number of molecules occupy a smaller space; you increase its density, because now, there are more particles per unit volume; you increase its pressure, because now the molecules strike the walls of the container more often; you … When it comes to natural gas, the most common method is the " diaphragm compressor ." Please check out my other videos. Answer To save on this loses we can compress the gas and sell it as bottled gas. Can you please guide me and explain why I should add water to it and then dry it? This problem was solved several years ago. Ahh the danger of speaking in absolutes. i want to compress hydrogen or methane. The only _viable_ low carbon way of making hydrogen fuel requires a very high temperature nuclear reactor and if you're going to do it that way you might as well just expend extra energy and tack on extra carbon atoms extracted from the atmosphere. HHO does not seem sufficiently potent to run the engine. Get it wet as soon as you take it out of the battery. Can you compress a gas? I read the rare earth magnets use metal hydride, and I was wodnering if they could be used to store hydrogen... www.intemag.com/media/HydrogenEmbrittlementandH2coating.pdf. Solid State storage of hydrogen is very safe. This isn't then. Thus, do not become a poster child/adult as an example for the enforcement of these law awaiting to take effect. Peace and common fear mongerers..... work together to find a solution don't be a wet towel. :) re your post. Methane is considered to be a non-compressible gas. One gram of hydrogen takes up as much physical space as 11 liters of oxygen. http://hydrogenhouseproject.org/the-first-consumer-hydrogen-house.html. The gas needs to be compressed to approximately 200 psi (pounds per square inch) if about 4 gallons in quantity. There are three ways to store hydrogen, 1) freeze it at -238 degrees Celsius, 2) compress it at 20,000 PSI and lastly 3) absorb the hydrogen into a metal hydride.You can take a cylinder the size of a 12 gram co2 cartridge, fill it 80% of the way with a metal hydride and it will hold 12 liters of hydrogen. It's really simple I have done it 100 times. The compressor contains a series of chambers, each one equipped with a specially designed membrane. As water has a bulk modulus of 2.2×10 9 Pa, water is compressible. Reply Don't try it. Some are running engines with this technique (hydrolysis). There is no reason you couldn't. it makes 280f air with good flow. When you compress a gas it will turn into a liquid until the presser is taken off the compressed liquid and then it will turn back into a gas Is compressed natural gas a liquid? Compression Comprehension You can run 11:1 or even 12:1 compression on your pump-gas street motor, but you'll need this simple advie to make it happen. Putting aside the CO2 emissions, bear in mind that large chunks of the pollution issues with both gasoline and diesel revolve around the issue that the fuel isn't "pure" octane or the same long chain hydrocaron (diesel is at least 30 different hydrocarbons plus contamination). This will remove the outside casing. Well the easiest place is inside NIMH rechargeable batteries. You just have to know the dangers and put in the steps to protect yourself. ---Please Be Careful, and Be safe. Expanding town gas storage tanks use more or less the same principle. Will it not react with water and become obsolete? Hydrogen is odorless and leaks cannot be detected by smell. Question. This explains why you can compress gases and why they flow. I want to collect metal hydride from NIMH batteries as you suggested to put in Cylinder to store Hydrogen gas. I have better things to do with my time. I have been looking at this for a little while now, and digging into metal hydrides. I was getting 300 grams from Prius batteries using a metal saw to cut into the battery, separating the plates, and scraping off the MH. Apart from the handling issues mentioned above, hydrogen fuel must be made from _something_. There is a lot of sensationalism over hydrogen storage because of one zeplin. Just to emphasise how bad it can get, exploding CNG and LPG (propane) cylinders in cars have a nasty tendency to shred the vehicle even if they don't cause a fire - which is why metal CNG/LPG tanks were banned for automotive use 30 years ago in most countries (Propane gas bottles for domestic use are subjected to much lower stress levels than automotive ones due to far lower charge/discharge rates and normally thoroughly tested at each refill). A Helium atom is smaller than hydrogen due to the inter-nuclear force between the nucleus and the electrons being higher than that of Hydrogen so the atomic radii of helium is less as compared to hydrogen.The volume of H2 that might diffuse will actually be infinitesimally small through the wall of the vessel. There are plenty of pyrolysis setups available to do the job (and there are twice as many hydrogen atoms available in a litre of diesel than a litre of liquid hydrogen). Not all compressed gas cylinders have safety devices. Here is a book I found, talking about magnets and their hydrogen absorbtion phenomena. im trying to store hydrogen into these propane bottles so i can use that instead of propane to fuel my foundry furnace. If you gave more information, for instance- what gas you want to compress- whether it is flammable- how much you want to store- what pressure you need to store it as- what kind of tank or bottle and valve you have to store it with- what it will be used forthen you might get a more helpful answer. Metal hydride storage of hydrogen is very safe and stable. im new at this kind of stuff and I was wondering how to turn methane has into a liquid is there an easier way than getting dry ice to lquify the gas, I don't really know about gas compression but I do have another answer to alternative fuel in a farm situation and that is a biomass gassifier it is proven technology and can be created with very easily there are a lot of resources for this but by far the simplest and most complete is the FEMA manual here is a link https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodgas.net%2Ffiles%2FFEMA_emergency_gassifer.pdf&ei=Bm9cUL2gJoK49QTKkoDoBQ&usg=AFQjCNHhq0oqOKhTIQSr0jrycS6MibI_AQ or you could just search for FEMA wood gasifier don't be fooled by the name though it can be used with almost anything that can burn, If PKM or anyone is still interested I would like to know what gas you want to compress -Methane whether it is flammable -Yes flammable how much you want to store what pressure you need to store it as what kind of tank or bottle and valve you have to store it with what it will be used for -from 25-120psi in a large gas (LPG) tanksI live in the Dominican Republic on a off the grid farm, my needs for low tec, cheap and ease of service is very high and important as I would like to show and share with others how to us methane as a fuel. Hydrogen requires super high compression to store efficiently in gas form. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REV739pRNcw&t=25s. My conclusion, the banksters/ oil industry will do everything to misinform anything about hydrogen, "this could blow up"!!!! Hydrogen; if you do not storage H2 in liquid form, or gas form and have proper ventilation is still considered illegal for vehicular combustion volume metric efficiency usage in public highway motor applications, but currently is not enforced. (Think about a diving tank – 600 L of gas is compressed into a 3 L cylinder.) Really gets the imagination going.... http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/is-a-hydrogen-powered-house-really-green.html. https://hydrogenhouseproject.org/index.html. The main function of the compressor is to compress the gas … I also fill these tanks and blow them up to understand the dangers. ", Answer Why or why not? Can you send me the quotation of your generator on "indradeep1989@gmail.com". But it is not at all as dangerous as the myth want you to believe. Refueling stations already in use afford H2 refueling within 3 minutes employing high-pressure hydrogen gas. The link above is current, and the link below shows fuel cell history. Now you're on the right track for vehicles.... :) Low volumes on demand either through direct generation from water on the spot or storage in a solid medium. Read the "Storage" section of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy#Production.2C_storage.2C_infrastructure for ideas. If there are any carbon atoms in the metal matrix then hydrogen which penetrates the metal will bind to them to form methane and that adds internal pressure to the metal itself, further weakening it. This minimum possible power to compress a gas from P 1 to P 2 is given by following equation, Here subscripts 1 and 2 correspond to inlet and outlet states of the gas, V is the inlet volumetric flow of gas. You cannot safely use an air compressor in natural gas service. In order to compress water, you would need so much pressure. L. The forums are retiring in 2021 and are now closed for new topics and comments. Liquid hydrogen requires cryogenic storage technology such as special thermally insulated containers and requires special handling common to all cryogenic fuels. 2 years ago. Hydrogen is more volatile than gasoline, hence it wil dissipate faster than gasoline. Can we explain what happens in terms of the gas particles? If people are intersted there are some hints above to follow and learn more. Anyway, I plan to use soda bottles, flexible plastic tubing (thick), and PVC/ABS pipe. And because the particles are far away from each other, it can be compressed easily. last time i make hydrogen (electrolysis) i use a regular balloon for storage and i connect a firefighters like hose (smaller scale of course) and i fire up like a torch for like one minute and was fun until balloon was empty :). Hydrogen will still eventually weaken and destroy them. The forums are retiring in 2021 and are now closed for new topics and comments. Norway has legislated out all gasoline, diesel & hybrid autos by the year 2025. Many thanks John. For me, the issue is to find a compressor to compress hydrogen, this is now the challenge. Good luck ! But it is not practically compressible for the least. In other words, if you put raw hydrogen in a metal tank, you're making a pressure bomb (like the old trick of dry ice in a plastic bottle). I just thought up a way to compress the hydro-oxy gas mix I'm gonna get from my future electrolysis tank. Also, I remembered this project in Island where they have hydrogen stations performing electrolysis, and running different car brands running on hydrogen. Fun fun. Looking forward to perfecting my PEM cells. You have that wrong. That way you have a much easier to handle fuel with a much higher energy density (see comment above about diesel). You do NOT need an engineering degree to handle liquified gases, including hydrogen. It is used as a fuel gas H2 can be heated providing it is not mixed with O2. Atmospheric pressure is normally about 101.4 kPa (14.7 psi). How is the power capacity (kW or MW) of a biogas installation determined? Yet natural gas doesn't compress as easily. Propane is probably cheaper, definitely safer, and you'd get more of it in a bottle. Synthetic fuels would have very low contamination levels and be of a hiughly uniform chemical structure. Hopefully get a doctorate out of it. 4 years ago. This is not something I'd encourage an amateur to attempt. As I mentioned to the guy above, ammonia bromide is very very promising. Ok, found a report on Hydrogen, and its myths... You should read this report, it demistifies the fears of hydrogen. Gas can be compressed much more easily than a liquid or solid. This is one of the reason oil refineries flare (burn off) excess methane. This makes the use of hydrogen particularly dangerous in closed areas (tunnels, parkings)..[47] Some differences with common fuels include the fact that pure hydrogen-oxygen flames burn in the ultraviolet color range and are nearly invisible to the naked eye, thus it requires a flame detector to detect if a hydrogen leak is burning. It can auto ignite however under some conditions of o2 is in the tank or pipes to the tank, which is why you want to filter for purity. Purified hydrogen gas >99.5% is compressed well above 200 bar/~3000 psi and delivered in STEEL WELDING TANKS for everyday use from every major gas welding supplier known. Liquefied gases are gases which can become liquids at normal temperatures when they are inside cylinders under pressure. Here is a fellow doing it in a residential setting on a large scale - albeit at low pressure/high volume. The exaggerated fear of hydrogen gas storage and "embrittlement" is epidemically rampant! Doing do will invalidate your public liability insurance and expose you to prosecution in most countries. If it's pure hydrogen and not hho gas you can't compress it using standard at home equipment but you can store it as a useable gas in a tank no problem. Then hook it to your hydrogen tank from your generator. It's very close to atmospheric pressure and any H2 that does escape will A: go more or less straight up and B: won't all escape at once, so there's less liklihood of an explosion. Note that compressed gas cylinder with a pressure gauge reading of 0 kPa or 0 psig is not really empty. lol. I however doubt you have the means to do so. View. A manual way with man power would be good or low dc power.We run a large battery bank charged with a diesel generator, the hope is to convert a generator to methane and lpg back up. So if you compress a gas, draw off part of its heat, … The inside plate is the positive side (contains NOOHI and not very good for hydrogen storage) and the outside plate is the negative side, that's the one you want. Couple that with the pressure cycling inherent in tank-based gas storage systems and you _will_ have an explosion at some point. I've had a steel cylinder sitting in my shop for almost 2 years with 1600 psi remaining and UNCHANGED. Employed internationally offshore on rigs, here's a standard rack of STEEL H2 gas bottles compressed at 200 bar: You cannot, I repeat cannot compress hydrogen into a propane tank, period, end of story. Compressed natural gas is a fuel that can be used in place of gasoline, diesel fuel and liquefied petroleum gas (LPG). Daniel Creaney in Manitoba Canada just add me . 6 years ago, can i storage on a big hard balloon and connect to a little stove heater just for a evening cooking ? High pressure hydrogen is even worse. But show it a leak, even minute, and it will find its way out. There will be a dutch company I think coming to market with the bromide pellets soon. It still needs to be compressed, but at 112 psi, not 20,000Now you're asking yourself, where do I find metal hydride. However storage of H2 in solid array is stable and safe. Helium is indeed smaller, because H2, but Hydrogen can permeate materials and diffuse in materials Helium cannot because Helium is mostly non reactive. An air compressor is designed to compress AIR, not natural gas. Hydrogen; maintenance of liquid state and the devices in order to do this requires an industrial MAZMAT type licensing and certification. Hydrogen is NOT an inert gas, regardless of form. 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